Amber
Wrestling Radio Host
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 952
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Post by Amber on Apr 23, 2006 19:01:24 GMT -5
Heard of it right? I'm sure, but have you ever heard why they had to do it? Bret Hart was leaving for WCW. According to his contract he had creative control for his last 30 days. Vince needed him to drop the title before he went to WCW. He refused, saying he couldn't do the job in Canada. American wrestlers lose their titles in the States all the time. Personally I can't see the difference. ------------- ---------------- ------------- In a meeting a short time before the incident:
(All are quotes from Shawn Michaels' autobiography and are shortened. Just there to give you the feel in the office at the time. HHH-"...This is the same guy who while he was off negotiated a deal with WCW only to come back and renegotiate a 20-year way-out-of-bounds contract... he has not done good business since... we have people leaving in the middle of the night and taking their belts and dropping them in trash cans on WCW... We can't afford for that to happen with the World Wrestling Federation Championship!" Vince said his hands were tied and asked what else could they do. HBK-"I'll do whatever you want... tell me what needs to be done... My loyalty is here with you..." Vince asks what he is talking about. HBK-"Whatever it takes...tell someone to ring the bell... whatever you want me to do..." Vince-"...That has to be a last resort." Vince spoke again with Bret about dropping the belt. He still refused. Bret did not want to put Shawn Michaels over. It was Bret's idea for Shawn to put him in the Sharpshooter as a false finish. Shawn informed Earl Hebner that when this happened to ring the bell. He wasn't to speak about it and he wasn't to know anything about it. The same had been told to Shawn, HHH, and Jerry Brisco, the four who were in the original meeting. In the aftermath of it all, Bret punched Vince in the face. Vince took it saying that he owed Bret that. ------------- ---------------- ------------- So... that's the story, shortened, of course. In my opinion, and I know people have very strong opinions about this, but in my opinion, they had to get the belt off of Bret. They could not risk his leaving with it for fear of what he might have done to degrade it. They had to do this for the business. At the time, Vince was actually trying to help get Bret out of the door. Under no conditions was it a spite because Bret was leaving. Bret was not doing what was right for the business by refusing to lose. He was acting selfish. He was given the opportunity beforehand to bow out gracefully. It's traditional for the wrestlers to do the job on the way out. He wouldn't. He did what he thought he had to do. Vince did what he had to do. In the end it was his decision to do the swerve. Bret had an inkling beforehand that this might happen. But he still refused to give up the title. I don't think he seriously thought they would do that to him. I'm not saying that it was a good thing to do. But it was the WWF's only option at the time. They had to get the title off of him and he wouldn't lose. So they made him lose. ------------- ---------------- ------------- What are your thoughts on all of this?? |
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Warrior
Cook for Wrestlers
.:I'm more Ultimaniac than Savage:.
Posts: 81
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Post by Warrior on Apr 23, 2006 19:43:13 GMT -5
Bret could have just lost the belt in America quite easily post-SS, which he was willing to do and Vince had falsely led him into believing that was fine from what I can gather,,,
And before you ask, no, I didnt read that exerpt from the Michaels book, as the mans a prick and from what I hear, the books pretty much fiction anyway, so it would be a waste of time.
IMHO, the screwjob did not have to happen...
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Post by oldschooler on Apr 23, 2006 19:46:29 GMT -5
Bret could have just lost the belt in America quite easily post-SS, which he was willing to do and Vince had falsely led him into believing that was fine from what I can gather,,, And before you ask, no, I didnt read that exerpt from the Michaels book, as the mans a prick and from what I hear, the books pretty much fiction anyway, so it would be a waste of time. IMHO, the screwjob did not have to happen... Exactly right Remember Wendi Richter losing the womans title to The Spider Lady 10 years earlier ? Vince is a twat who likes to throw his authority about which was the case |
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Amber
Wrestling Radio Host
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 952
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Post by Amber on Apr 23, 2006 21:57:48 GMT -5
From the way Bret was acting, Vince did not trust him to lose the title at all. Bret had creative control of his contract and just because that's what he said, didn't mean that's what was going to happen. They didn't want to risk that.
They being those four in that meeting HHH, HBK, Vince, and even the old schooler, Jerry Brisco. Now for Jerry to go along with it I'd like to think there had to be a good reason, because the old school guys would never have done something like that.
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By the way, I'm obviously not trying to win any popularity contests, if you haven't noticed. Just trying say how I feel.
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Post by tysontomko on Apr 23, 2006 22:07:11 GMT -5
Next Year Survivor Series 2007 will be in Montreal at the Molson Centre!!
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80s4life
Wrestling Event Security
Posts: 137
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Post by 80s4life on Apr 24, 2006 0:12:45 GMT -5
I was at that show ten years ago, and let me begin by saying that for the ten years preceding that pay-per-view that I'd been attending live events, this was the worst W.W.F. show I'd ever seen live. Ironically, I'd seen house shows in the same city much better than this. As for Bret, I think he takes his Canadian legend status a little too seriously - and as a Canadian, I can honestly say while I have much respect for his tremendous in-ring abilities, his face does not pop into my mind when I think of national heroes. He happily cashed W.W.F. paychecks for thirteen years and then had the audacity to refuse to lose his World Title when he knew he was debuting with another company shortly thereafter? He deserved whatever happened to him. His kids can go to good colleges thanks to Vince McMahon. I'm not gonna cry for him. The loss of Owen was heartbreaking, admittedly, but the big Montreal screwjob? Bret's a baby, and if we are to believe industry books, in Hulk Hogan's, he says Owen sided against Bret in his legendary tantrums and it was a little secret between Owen and Hulk that "The King of Harts" wasn't automatically on his brother's side. I'd even heard a rumor that while Owen wasn't happy with what happened in Montreal, he was anxious to get back on the road with the W.W.F. after the incident and get on with life (if you'll remember, the entire Hart Foundation took time off or left the Fed after the incident). Some people just take themselves way too seriously.
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Alpha Clash
Wrestling Announcer
Nothing is impossible. Anything can happen with enough blood, sweat & tears.
Posts: 1,239
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Post by Alpha Clash on Apr 24, 2006 4:31:39 GMT -5
Somebody here forgot that Bret was asked to drop the belt just after he agreed to go to WCW...almost a month before Survivor Series. Bret was asked to drop the belt to either Austin or Taker before Survivor....he refused saying that he wanted to be champion going into Survivor Series. I watched Bret's DVD...he said the old "timed honored tradition" thing is not the case here and it didn't apply. Anyone in the business knows that if you are a champion and sign to work for another territory or federation, you drop the belt on your back before you go. Bret didn't want to...which means even though I love Bret Hart, when it came time for him to follow the "time honored tradition", he didn't want to. Which means that Bret maybe did have an idea of showing up on Nitro with the belt. Remember, Bischoff works for Vince now. So he will say what Vince wants him to say, which is not necessarily what really happened. I do believe that there may have been an extra cash offer from Bischoff and WCW for Bret to show up on Nitro with the belt. Whether Bret accepted or not...who knows. I don't like what Vince did, but Bret is just as guilty. So both should shut up and bury this.
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Post by Scott Joyce on Apr 24, 2006 5:45:28 GMT -5
I personally understand Bretts anger and think Vince should have been alittle more trusting in Brett. BUT at the same time if you put yopurself in Vinces shoes who knows how Brett had been acting behind the scenes before SS and after knowing he was leaving for WCW. Theres proably alot we dont know about his actions leading up to SS. It really is a lose lose situation for everyone involved and ashame that it ended Bretts WWF career like it did.
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Burnham
Wrestling Manager
S.U.F.C
Posts: 1,934
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Post by Burnham on Apr 26, 2006 6:55:11 GMT -5
ive got the best of cinfidental on dvd, at this is on it, you here them talking about the match, and you see bret going crazy at the end of the match!
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Post by Scott Joyce on Apr 26, 2006 16:12:57 GMT -5
Brett really went nuts and I understand why. Brett broke Vinces nose and the equipment at ringside. HBK is lucky he didnt pop him one as well.
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Post by Dan Poutsma on May 14, 2006 0:01:13 GMT -5
Everybody seems to forget that just about every time Shawn held a championship and was supposed to lose it, he would somehow get injured or "lose his smile" and just forfeit the belt instead of doing the "time honored tradition".
The reason Bret refused to job to Shawn was because Shawn pulled one of his crybaby acts and refused to put him over, or much less even work a match with him, up until then. The original plan for Wrestlemania 13 was to have Shawn lose the title to Bret, returning the favor for the previous year's 'Mania when Bret jobbed to Shawn in the Iron Man match, but Shawn suddenly "lost his smile" and everything had to be changed around because of it.
And it was Vince who was the one who pushed Bret out the door to begin with and agreed to the creative control clause in his contract. He was supposed to stay until December, and at one point, agreed to lose the title in a fatal fourway at the In Your House: DX PPV. Basically, he was willing to put over just about anybody, but for whatever reason Vince was adamant that he do the job to Shawn in Montreal.
Finally, Bret proposed that he just give up the belt the night after Survivor Series and Vince agreed seemingly just to pacify him and put him at ease. Then they pulled off the screwjob with the excuse to justify their actions being that they were afraid Bret was going to show up in WCW and dump the belt in the garbage if he stayed champion.
#1 According to Bret, he would've never done that, as he had too much loyalty and respect for the company that made him.
#2 If he was actually going to stay until December, it would've been breach of contract had he showed up in WCW anytime before then anyway unless Vince agreed to let him go early
#3 Vince and Co. had been planning the screwjob since the Wednesday before Survivor Series. As far as I know, Bret pitched the idea that he just give up the belt on RAW the following evening sometime shortly before the match with Shawn.......
So it seems that whether Bret was going to leave for WCW immediately after Survivor Series or not, Vince was hell bent on having Shawn walk out with the belt that night. You can argue about Bret not wanting to do the "time honored tradition" for Shawn all you want, but legally, he was in the right since he had creative control and Vince agreed that he could just give up the belt. And honestly, would any of you do the job for Shawn after the way he had acted? Just a couple of months earlier, he was supposed to lose to Hart brother-in-law Davey Boy Smith at the One Night Only PPV in the UK (Davey Boy even went so far as to dedicate the match to I believe his sister, who was dying), then all of a sudden Davey Boy is forced to job the European title to Shawn and the championship (which for all intents and purposes was made for the Bulldog) ends up being treated like a complete joke from that point forward. How scomemy is that?
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Alpha Clash
Wrestling Announcer
Nothing is impossible. Anything can happen with enough blood, sweat & tears.
Posts: 1,239
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Post by Alpha Clash on May 14, 2006 14:21:40 GMT -5
True Dan, Shawn is a sleezebag for acting that way and Bret may end up being worse for acting like Shawn. Bret was asked to drop the belt to Taker before Survivor and refused. He was asked to drop the belt to Austin and refused. All parties are to blame for this...no one is innocent.
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Post by Scott Joyce on May 16, 2006 16:05:51 GMT -5
It really was a big mess all over the place with this. And your so right Alpha had Brett dropped the title to Taker or Austin then this whole thing would never had to happen.
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