Were Brett Hart or Shawn Michaels overated in WWF?

[Iceman]

Were Brett Hart or Shawn Michaels overated in WWF? Were they given to much power in WWF when they clearly weren't that good?

[Blue Magic]

Hogan is and was the best heavyweight champion ever. These others were never really in the same class or close!

[Iceman]

Brett Hart and Shawn Michaels should of never been more than Intercontinental Champions, and I think the Honky Tonk Man, Razor Ramon, Roddy Piper, and of course Macho Man who was also the Heavy Weight Champion were all way better.

[Levittown Slugger]

Size wise, yes they were overatted. But they single handedly saved the wwf from falling to wcw in the mid/late 90's. Some might say steve austin did, but who made steve austin?...bret hart and shawn michaels."

[Lobo]

I think they were both awesome and deserved the recognition they received.
Both men look great in the ring and are both so smooth.
I prefer Bret to Shawn - I'm a sucker for chain wrestling, so Bret gets the nod

[Amber]

I agree with lobo, except that I prefer Shawn to Bret. No matter how much you thought that there was no way any human being could come back after that, whatever it was, you couldn't count Shawn out until they rung that bell. No matter who the opponent was, or what the conditions were, he could and still can, always go toe to toe with them, move for move, and it still be 100% believable, whereas with others you'd think that there is no possible way. Personally, I think Shawn Michaels is the best wrestler to ever step inside the squared circle.

[Tommy Dreamer]

Bret Hart excellent technical wrestler against opponents of similar or less size. Against larger wrestlers[Sid,Diesel,Yokozuna or Taker] he was well below average. Boring promos which consisted of the same old crap untill he turned heel.
Michaels excellent promo guy,could fight opponents of any size an all time great.

[hbk]

I personally think that these guys got exactly what they deserved. I mean, i think they revolutionised wrestling in the mid 90's etc. Bret Hart is one of the greatest technical wrestler of all time and had to some great matches and Shawn Michaels is also a phenomenal athlete who has also given us some great matches. And when them two ahd the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania XII. That was amazing! So no, i don't think they were overrated, they got the recognition they deserved.

[bruiser]

I was never too high on Bret but to say him and shawn may have been over-rated makes no sense, they put on great matches everytime they stepped into a ring which was a marked contrast to the punch/kick fests of the time.

Now, if you'd said Ric Flair, I'd have agreed. He's well over-rated

[Repo]

Honky Tonk Man is awful, and was never a draw.

Now, I think Shawn is overrated, but I like Bret Hart. Shawn was more of a lame-o slow wrestler, and really only put on good matches with the Clique.

[Van Hagar]

As far as technical ability, I liked both. Interview skill, I loved the guys on both sides of the spectrum. Michaels was a great heel and face. I think Hart is underrated as a great heel and face. As a face he wasn't a extremely charismatic guy, but he was soft spoken and portrayed as a fighting champion. As a heel he was phenomenal, probably one of the five best ever.

As for drawing, if it wasn't Hart or Michaels with the belt, then who? Another year of Diesel or Yoko?

Hart was actually a really good draw internationally from 1992-1998 (actually this DOESN'T include Canada), and in LA. He drew THIRTY THOUSAND in India for a match VS. TATANKA! And it wasn't becasue the Indians were there to cheer the Indian. In 1997 he drew REALLY well in Canada, however the WWF wasn't drawing well anywhere else.

Hart got the title in 1992 and 1994 for one reason, the steroid scandal. He was a small, but fairly popular wrestler. Of course the reason he got the title is part of the reason of his downfall. NOTHING was going to draw during that period when the WWF got a black eye from all the sex and steroid scandals. Proven draws like Savage, Flair, and Hogan couldn't draw sh*t. Also, notice shortly after the steroid trials are done the title goes back to a big lug (Diesel). To top it off the industry was stuck in such a big rut, it took Nitro to pull it out (literally).

I can't remember what the deal was with Michaels. I remember he drew fairly good houses, I just can't remember why he didn't make any money. PPV buyrates? Merchandise? I know the TV wasn't great either, but it wasn't as bad as it would eventually get at some points.

BTW, whoever doesn't think Honky Tonk Man is a draw should put down their crack pipe. HTM was a HUGE draw when he was IC Champion, people wanted to see him get his ass kicked so badly.

[Iceman]

If I have to give Bret Hart any respect I would say he was alright as a heel when he was in the tag-team the "Hart Foundation" with Jim the "Anvil" Neidhart and manager Jimmy Hart, those 3 together were actually pretty good to watch. Bret Hart wasn't a big enough Wrestling star to go solo, there simply was nobody left with all the other Wrestling Stars gone. Examples: Hogan, and Savage.

[Van Hagar]

Iceman said:

If I have to give Bret Hart any respect I would say he was alright as a heel when he was in the tag-team the "Hart Foundation" with Jim the "Anvil" Neidhart and manager Jimmy Hart, those 3 together were actually pretty good to watch. Bret Hart wasn't a big enough Wrestling star to go solo, there simply was nobody left with all the other Wrestling Stars gone. Examples: Hogan, and Savage.

What do you mean he wasn't big enough? Is that code for "didn't take enough steriods"?

[Iceman]

Mostly meant "Star" wise: skill, headliner at shows, spotlight excellence, great under pressure, full of surprises, carry/make a match better, personality, interviews. But yeah, also Bret was kinda small, "lightweight wrestler", that's what made him a great tag-team wrestler, even Jim the "Anvil" was bigger than Brett, so he helped carried Bret in a lot the matches, I give the Anvil respect for that throughout the years. I liked the "Anvil", he was funny too. Macho wasn't that big for example (no steriods back then either), but bigger than Bret, a "Heavyweight", and WWF Heavyweight Champion too. He presented himself big and played big against some of the biggest, toughest, best Wrestlers: Hogan, Andre, Kamala, Warrior, Jake the "Snake" Roberts, King Kong Bundy, Ricky Steamboat, etc. What would be Brett's record with the Title if had to face some of them like Macho did, he held the IC and Heavyweight belt for both over a year against them and many more. He even beat Ric Flair 46 times when he had the Heavyweight Belt the second time in the WWF, now that's not bad.

Macho's Title Defenses: www.Icemanswrestlingbios.cjb.net

[Van Hagar]

Iceman said:

Mostly meant "Star" wise: skill, headliner at shows, spotlight excellence, great under pressure, full of surprises, carry/make a match better, personality, interviews. But yeah, also Bret was kinda small, "lightweight wrestler", that's what made him a great tag-team wrestler, even Jim the "Anvil" was bigger than Brett, so he helped carried Bret in a lot the matches, I give the Anvil respect for that throughout the years. I liked the "Anvil", he was funny too. Macho wasn't that big for example (no steriods back then either), but bigger than Bret, a "Heavyweight", and WWF Heavyweight Champion too. He presented himself big and played big against some of the biggest, toughest, best Wrestlers: Hogan, Andre, Kamala, Warrior, Jake the "Snake" Roberts, King Kong Bundy, Ricky Steamboat, etc. What would be Brett's record with the Title if had to face some of them like Macho did, he held the IC and Heavyweight belt for both over a year against them and many more. He even beat Ric Flair 46 times when he had the Heavyweight Belt the second time in the WWF, now that's not bad.

Macho's Title Defenses: www.Icemanswrestlingbios.cjb.net

So what, Hogan wasn't BIG until he started getting a push, Macho either. If we kept to who is already big Frank Gotch and George Hackensmidth would still be headlining. So what, Bret beat Flair a ton of times after he won the belt. Bret had a ton of skill over Hogan.

Also, Macho did take steroids.